SG SOUNDS
Owner of the JTR OS subs and was very curious how they would stack up to your double 18 inch subs. The OS are horn loaded subs. I’ve been eyeing the Bassboss double 18 boxes and the many great review's all over the net. JTR has recently released their own active double 18” sub, the Captivator 218Pro and looking at the specs they seem very similar to the Bassboss double 18's plus way cheaper

I’m in the market for buying some active front loaded double 18 subs but would like a comparison between the Bassboss and JTR offerings....or if the horn loaded OS is just a better sub in general...any info would be greatly appreciated thanks
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David Lee

Hi SG,  

I have no first-hand experience with the JTR OS or the new Captivator vented box. All I can do for the moment is point out the observable differences. 

Both the JTR boxes have ceramic magnet drivers whereas all the BASSBOSS subs have Neodymium magnet drivers. The ceramic ferrite magnets are cheaper but they are heavier and on the whole ceramic ferrite tends to yield a lower intensity magnetic field in the gap which can result in a lower efficiency motor. The benefits of Neodymium motors are reduced weight and, generally, increased sensitivity but they are more expensive. 

The JTR boxes use 15mm Baltic Birch whereas the BASSBOSS boxes use 18mm Baltic Birch. The BASSBOSS double-18" cabinets are slightly heavier than the JTR Captivators even though the BASSBOSS have Neodymium magnets, so the additional weight is probably due to thicker panels and more bracing. 

The JTR Captivator 218PRO is apparently supplied with a ICE power 1200AS2 amplifier, which has a power supply rated for 1200 Watts RMS. The amplifier has 2 output channels rated for 1200W each but they both draw from the same power supply, limiting the maximum continuous output to 1200 Watts. This is a good quality amplifier and in fact we are considering using it in our forthcoming compact single 15” subwoofer. 

In comparison, the BASSBOSS double-18” subwoofers have 4000W RMS amplifiers, roughly 4 x the power. This amplifier is capable of delivering 4000W of continuous output. This level of power is what we provide because we expect our subwoofers to satisfy the demands for continuous high-output at low frequencies. 

The Orbit Shifter does seem to be available with a similar amplifier but from what information I can find it doesn’t offer more output at low frequencies than the BASSBOSS vented boxes, particularly not the ZV28. No matter how good the Orbit Shifter is as a horn-loaded subwoofer, there are limits to the benefits of  portable horn-loaded subwoofers. In short, if a subwoofer is to be portable and horn-loaded, it can’t be effective and efficient at very low frequencies. 

If you’re not satisfied with the Orbit Shifters for some reason, you need to determine what that reason is. Front-loaded subs sound different from horn-loaded subs. The BASSBOSS models offer extremely flat frequency response, which is a characteristic that horn-loaded subs don’t offer as a rule. Horn-loaded subs can make better use of limited amplifier power, but we provide plentiful power so that’s not a limitation of the BASSBOSS boxes. I have my preference, and I spent decades pursuing the ultimate horn-loaded subwoofer so I’m not lacking for perspective. In short, portable-sized horn-loaded subwoofers cannot satisfy my desire for extremely low-frequency bass. That said, it isn’t just that a subwoofer is front-loaded that makes it able to satisfy. It also needs to be outstanding in the category of front-loaded subwoofers. Unfortunately that kind of performance doesn’t come cheap. 

I’m curious to hear why you’re considering active, front-loaded subs when you already have seemingly very capable horn-loaded subwoofers in your possession? 

Regards,

David Lee

BASSBOSS

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SG SOUNDS
Hi Dave 

Thanks for the quick reply, my OS to be honest I've yet to hear a better sounding sub over them, when i first got them coming from the Yorkville ls800 and SRX828 i was amazed on how musical they sounded even at high volumes, i was hearing notes i never heard before from the OS...The yorkies was loud but very boomy, the srx sounded more musical but the OS still BLEW AWAY both speakers in overall sound quality and by far.

I run the OS on some Linea Research amps (44m20) and the OS can full up a room with bass very easily, I'm taking hair raising chest thumping bass especially when coupled together (4000 watts rms) and they are very efficient, .i play mostly Reggae/Dancehall and Soca music

I kinda want to get back into the active set up (ease of setting up and minus carrying a amp rack) but i want subs that play as good or even better than the OS and the SSP218 seems like it can do that based on all the reviews and vids i see online..4 SSP218 will probably do me good for the type of music i play in large settings..I ran 4 OS with 2 3tx noesis 3 way tops.

Ive haven't seen many reviews on the Cap218 pro's but coming from JTR i know they would sound good plus they are cheaper as i stated above, thanks for your honest take on the comparison in your post above, i believe the SSP218 to be superior in output and is leaning heavyly towards buying 4 of them.

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David Lee

Hi SG,

If you’re doing Reggae/Dancehall and Soca you might want to consider the BASSBOSS VS21 Rum Punch. It’s lighter and smaller than the SSP218, offers very nearly the same output SPL, as in you really can’t hear the difference in level, and draws only half the current of the SSP218s. 

The vented chamber in the VS21 delivers response that’s very deep and smooth, like a front-loaded sub, and the efficiency of the cabinet in the upper bass allows the Rum Punch to have a lot of amplifier headroom available in that critical kick-drum impact range compared to a front-loaded sub, especially one with limited power and heavy cones and surrounds. This combination provides the horn-loaded hit that’s desirable for Soca and Reggae with the deep-bass extension that’s possible from a relatively small vented box that isn’t possible from a small horn. The point is that it's the best of both worlds... And if you're wondering why it's called the Rum Punch, well, it was developed with Reggae and Soca in mind!

Since the VS21 cabinet and driver are more efficient than the SSP218’s, the VS21 is capable of comparable maximum SPL while requiring only 2400W to deliver the output. The 2400 Watt amplifier in the VS21 can deliver that 2400W continuously, and pretty much indefinitely, and the fact that it’s self-powered fits your desire to get away from amp racks etc. The VS21 is also less expensive than the SSP218. 

Regards,
David Lee
BASSBOSS

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SG SOUNDS
Hi Dave

Ill take a look at the VS21 for sure, i didn't realize they can match the output of the SSP218, i just love how the SSP218 looks stack up 2 high. Will you get more db out of the boxes when coupled like the Orbit Shifters since the VS21 is a horn loaded design? i forgot to ask in my last post. I can get up to 145db at around 30hz when i couple my Orbit Shifters together


Just to give a idea this is from Data Base.com


The Orbit Shifter Pro is JTR�s large format subwoofer for high output sound reinforcement and playback. It is a big cabinet measuring 45x22.5x32� and weighing in at 185 lbs, but comparable in size to a typical dual 18� bass reflex. The design is a folded, front loaded bass horn, utilizing a heavy duty, proprietary 18� driver, which is� designed and assembled in the USA. The driver is said to have a very high BL^2/Re of 256 and also a very large xmax rating of 30mm one way. It accounts for a significant portion of the 185lb weight of the OS-Pro. The cabinet is a tall slim design with the mouth of the horn firing forwards from one of the 45x22.5� panels. Construction of the cabinet is composed of 15mm void free BB plywood with a tough Line-X coating for protection. The grille is a 16 gauge, perforated and coated steel. The cabinet features handles integrated into the top and back, a standard pole mount and also a set of heavy duty casters which allow the OS-Pro to be easily moved by one person. Input connections are via Neutrik Speakon STX. The cabinet is also designed and manufactured in the USA. The nominal impedance of the cab is available as 2, 4 or 8 ohms. The system is available passive as tested here or as a powered unit with an internal SpeakerPower Torpedo amplifier. The passive cabinet is offered at $1799 direct while the powered version carries a $1300 up charge. 

Measurements taken of the OS-Pro show it to match the basic specs listed by JTR quite closely which is always a good sign. The system sensitivity matched up almost perfectly with an average of about 103dB over the 35-115Hz range. The effective extension of the system appeared to be a bit better than suggested by the specs on the JTR website with strong output down to the 30Hz bandwidth. Overall the OS-Pro is quite well behaved judging from the measurements. Obviously this is a loud cabinet with the potential for peaks of near 135dB at 2 meters outdoors when using an amplifier rated at the maximum recommended 4000w rms. With the K20 amplifier being utilized for the burst testing being rated for about 4x the recommended maximum power, the OS-Pro produced some astounding short term peaks of around 140dB over the 50-125Hz bandwidth. That is measured at 2 meters, is outdoors and is NOT a peak number. Obviously one would never apply that much amplifier to a single OS-Pro in regular use due to the risk of burning up the voice coils with too much duty cycle. However a more �practical� amplifier with a rating in the 2000 to 4000w range is still going to make a lot of noise.� A few of these OS-Pro cabs with a big amp or two will definitely bring the party. Additionally, once the high pass filter is in place, the OS-Pro system has to be driven very hard in order to get it to make any bad noises. With the recommended amplifier size it is possible that the amplifier will give out first. Compared to the plethora of dual 18� bass reflex cabinets available around this price range, the OS-Pro offers something a bit different with its horn loaded design and US manufacture.


Status
In Stock, ships within 2 business days
Frequency +/- 3db
37-121hz (30hz highpass filter recommended)
Sensitivity*
103db (1 watt/ 1 meter, half space)
Usable Output
139db (Calculated peak 142db – 3db compression)
Recommended Amplification
up to 4000 watts RMS (program)
Impedance
8 ohm or 4 ohm or 2 ohm
Dimensions (HxWxD)
45″x 22.5″x 32″
Weight
185lbs
Construction
15mm Baltic Birch, Void Free, Grade “BB”
Exterior Finish
Textured Coating (Line-X)
Connectors
Dual Neutrik NL4
Warranty
5 year Manufacturer defect
Optional 4000w DSP amplifer
 
Would the VS21 or SSP218 give similar results? The amperage draw on the VS21 is shocking
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David Lee

Hi SG,

 

Yes, I read all the specs and the Data Bass article on the Orbit Shifter in order to answer your initial question. Speaking of questions, were you able to measure a calibrated 145dB at 30Hz or are you estimating based on specifications? 

When designing a product, every choice must have a reason that’s driven by the desired outcome. An average 18" woofer has a piston area of about 1210 square centimeters. An average 21" woofer has a piston area of about 1680 square centimeters. That's about 40% more air displaced by a 21 than an 18 for the same excursion. In other words, the same SPL can be realized by a 21" using less excursion. Thus an extremely long excursion isn't required, which allows for a lighter surround, reduced moving mass and higher efficiency from the driver. The very heavy, long-excursion, 3-layer ceramic motor in the Orbit Shifter apparently has a motor strength of 256 bl^2/re. The Neodymium motor in the VS21 yields a higher motor strength of 377 bl^2/re and it's driving a larger and lighter cone. These factors contribute to the extended deep-bass output capacity and remarkably low current requirement of the VS21. 

When coupled together in phase, any two acoustical sources will yield a 6dB SPL increase on axis. (For the anoraks: this is also true off axis below frequencies with wavelengths greater than the acoustical source spacing.) What’s the difference with horns, then? Well, most portable horns have radiating areas that are too small relative to their flare constant and length. Due to the fact that bass horns with undersized radiating areas depend upon adjacent boxes for their lowest-frequency performance, when you separate them they lose more low-frequency sensitivity than direct-radiating boxes. Some people frame this as a benefit associated to multiple horns but I also see it as a detriment to system frequency response consistency as well as flexibility and scalability. If you _have_ to couple your subs to get the low-frequency response you want, you are limited in how you can configure your system and you are forced to compromise frequency response when you have to separate them. For smaller events, if you need two or more boxes to reach the low frequencies you want to provide, you either have to transport more equipment than you would like or compromise the system frequency response. 

To answer your question specifically, there is a 6dB increase in SPL when the quantity of VS21 (or SSP218) boxes is doubled. The VS21 is a Vented Short-horn. The vented section delivers the low frequency performance, so it’s not dependent upon another box to extend its low-frequency performance. The Short-horn section increases the individual cabinet’s sensitivity in the upper frequencies where the radiating area is not too small relative to the target frequency. 

You ask if the VS21 or SSP218 would give similar results to an Orbit Shifter and the answer depends on how you define similar. Similar is not the same. As the story goes, apples and oranges are both fruit and both are about the same size, shape and weight, but there are still differences. Those differences don’t make one better than the other, but it’s possible to have a preference for one flavor over the other. 

The Data Bass tests on the Orbit Shifter were done using a bridged Powersoft K20 amp (20KW) and were unprocessed aside from a 25Hz high-pass filter. JTR lists the specifications and the processing separately so the implication is the the specifications are for an unprocessed response. BASSBOSS specifications are based on measurements using the included amplifiers with all filters and limiters in place. The SSP218s and VS21's frequency response are smoother than the Data Bass response graph of the Orbit Shifter. And to be clear, there is no equalization applied within the SSP218s or VS21's processing to yield their flat response. 

Equalizing the signal of the Orbit Shifter could yield flatter response but would not yield greater output. On the contrary, any equalization would need to be applied to reduce peaks, as boost EQ would not be able to increase the maximum output of the driver at any given frequency. And the 30Hz high-pass filter that is recommended for the processing would reduce the levels realized at 30Hz by 3dB. Apparently there was a 25Hz high-pass filter in the high-power measurements on DataBass but there was not a low-pass filter, and the highest SPL figures were measured above the range in which a subwoofer would normally operate. 

The VS21 is definitely capable of outrageously high SPL at and above 100Hz but since we don't use it at 100Hz, we don't make any outrageous claims about it. In my opinion, specifications of performance outside the intended operating range are entirely irrelevant at best, and misleading at worst. Some people may choose to use their subwoofers as high as 120Hz, but that's not how BASSBOSS subwoofers are specified, sold or intended.

The frequency response of the Orbit Shifter is from 37Hz-121Hz. The frequency response of the VS21 is from 25Hz to 90Hz. That's ~10Hz deeper, which at these frequencies is about half an octave, with smoother frequency response, which some people find very appealing. Above about 55Hz I believe the Orbit Shifter would probably provide higher peak SPL but the VS21's low-pass filter begins to reduce its output above 65Hz, so it's not a battle the VS21 is trying to win. 

So the VS21 isn’t intended to be more orange than an orange or more apple than an apple, it’s intended to be more cream than ice and more shake than milk. They say the proof of the pudding is in the eating, (and I suppose the proof of the milkshake is in the drinking.) In any event, no amount of recipe reading or analysis of the sugar/fat/acid ratio will tell you whether it’s right for you. The point is you’ll only know if you like deeper better when you’ve dived into it. 

David Lee

BASSBOSS

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SG SOUNDS
Thanks for all the info David will be putting in my order very soon
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